JollyPieFedNintendo Is Now Going After YouTube Accounts Which Show Its Games Being Emulated
nanoUFOwww.timeextension.com/news/2024/10/nintendo-is-…
44 Comments
Comments from other communities
So... Almost every single video pre switch besides speed running videos? Where the fuck else are they supposed to play them? By the time "let's plays" we're popular on YouTube we were in the time of the Wii or even passed it. And even if they didn't emulate, they'd have to have bought the console off eBay where Nintendo makes zero money from the discontinued consoles. This is literally just control for the sake of control and it's why I hate Nintendo.
Then there's all of the speedrunning videos that were performed on emulators. Including on Nintendo developed emulators. How can Nintendo tell if you're using NSO or VC instead of BSnes or Mupen64?
Bobby TurkalinoI don’t like Nintendo’s attack on emulation any more than you do, but video capture cards have existed for a long time. You don’t need an emulator to record footage of console play
Yeah, N64 speedrunners even went as far as replacing their aging analog sticks with machined steel sticks. Because as the console ages, so do the controllers. And stick drift became a major problem for speed runners who used genuine consoles. There was even a case where an aging controller led to the discovery of a new glitch, when a speedrunner’s NES controller had gotten so old that it allowed him to press button combos that wouldn’t have been possible with a new controller. And that button combo allowed him to perform glitches that would have been otherwise impossible on a console.
The larger issue is accessibility. If speed running requires a genuine console, it *severely* limits the number of people who can afford to participate. There would be a big financial barrier just to buy the console and game(s), and since no new consoles are being made it will inevitably lead to the death of speedruns as consoles die out and nobody can continue playing.
One of the original goals of emulation was data preservation, since it quickly became evident that game companies wouldn’t bother preserving their own games. And as consoles age, that will only become more and more important. I personally have backups of all of my legitimately purchased Nintendo games. But that’s only because I enjoy data hoarding and have a NAS that can actually store all of it. Not everyone has that luxury, and it means that (again) there will be a big financial barrier to anyone wanting to be able to play the games that they legally purchased and have the right to play.
It's more about accessibility. It's not like they make the games anymore and the emulators they have on the Switch are lackluster. You could buy shit on eBay but if it's a super niche game it'd probably cost a lot of money. Money that doesn't go back to Nintendo. It's not like they're going to lose money for someone playing a super rare game on an emulator.
proleI imagine they're mostly going to target videos and channels that review those devices that you buy pre-loaded with 1TB of ROMs or whatever. Videos about and highlighting products that are blatantly infringing on like a billion copyrights.
If you make money from emulation, you'll get fucked (and honestly I'm kind of ok with that). However, it is a bit extreme to copyright claim videos that are just talking about said products.
With all that's said, I would think people doing video essays and shit will be fine. Then again, this is Nintendo so who knows.
JessicaFrom the article:
However, there will be some who argue that these emulation handhelds – which often come pre-loaded with hundreds of games without paying the copyright holders a single penny – are legally dubious at the best of times, and Nintendo is well within its rights to try and shut down any outlet which promotes them.
That is absurd. The copyright holders make nothing regardless, as the games are not for sale anymore.
Switch emulation is definitely up for debate. But hardware and games that are no longer made? Come on now…
🇰 🌀 🇱 🇦 🇳 🇦 🇰 🇮 🏆Guess you can't even show videos of legitimate Classics Library content on a real Switch since those are being emulated. 🤷🏻♂️
Regardless of the legality of the action or the product itself, a video reviewing, showing or reporting on it shouldn't be passable of a copyright claim.
Even if the video shows copyrighted material, it still shouldn't be allowed for Nintendo to claim it, as that would fall under fair use. Just showing a few screenshots of a video game for the purposes of education in an otherwise unrelated video would never fall under copyright infringement.
The piracy argument has nothing to do with Nintendo claiming a video as their own, despite them having no rights to do so.
PetteriPanothese emulation handhelds – which often come pre-loaded with hundreds of games
I can only speak for the retroid pocket I have. It's not far off from a stock android phone, sans camera and modem, plus d-pad and sticks.
It only came preloaded with a few open source emulators available on play store for free in addition to GApps (with official play store support).
Anbernic devices in particular are known to ship with an SD card that's preloaded with a fairly large game library. I own a RG351M which did indeed include a cheap card loaded with both the OS and a collection of games by Nintendo, Sega, and many others, plus some strange rom hacks. I immediately swapped that card out for a better one with a better CFW and my own files.
Most other notable names in the emulation handhelds space like Retroid, Ayn, and Ayaneo expect users to be able to provide their own files instead, which I'd say makes more sense.
This is getting to the point where it goes to court and rightfully, Nintendo should get slapped and a new bleem-like precedent is set.
NOT_RICKI have heard that Nintendo has never lost a lawsuit which is a real shame if true.
It's not. They've definitely lost lawsuits before.
Damn, Alex Navarro from Nextlander let me down then. Or I’m misremembering completely which is entirely possible.
I saw a similar comment in the last week or so (might have been on TikTok?) but it was specifically Japanese court that they'd said they'd never lost in. I don't know if it's accurate though, took it at face value and didn't really think much about it.
Japanese courts have a 99% conviction rate or something. Saying you've not lost in a Japanese court is like saying 99% of the time you've been to the airport, you got on a plane.
That's the case for most people
pankuleczkaplIn criminal cases. In civil suits someone always loses, so an average person cannot win more than 50% of cases.
I won't be buying a single Nintendo product then. Fuck 'em.
I'm going to boycott them the same way I've boycotted Sony ever since one of their CDs bricked my PC with their stupid rootkit.
What rootkit? I wasn't aware of this.
It was a while ago. And it was scummy. Probably their response to Napster or Limewire.
They’re probably talking about the BMG rootkit from the early 2000’s. Basically, when you inserted a Sony CD into your computer, it would automatically and silently install a rootkit on your PC, which introduced a backdoor on your PC that was being actively exploited. It was also notoriously difficult to remove, as it would reinstall itself even if you deleted every visible trace of it (and improperly installing it could disable access to your CD drive entirely.)
Then when shit hit the fan and Sony was making headlines for it, they released a “fix” for it. The fix didn’t actually remove the rootkit, and simply hid files with specific names (the rootkit files) from the users. This only introduced *another* vulnerability, where hackers could just name any virus the same as the rootkit, and it would automatically be hidden.
It led to several very large lawsuits and state investigations. Sony was raked over the coals by multiple state attorneys general, and the FTC even published warnings urging consumers not to buy Sony CDs.
All in the name of DRM. The rootkit was initially meant to stop you from ripping and copying the CD. Oh, and the rootkit contained sections of improperly credited open source code. So Sony stole from OSS programmers while claiming that they were trying to prevent IP theft.
tabularIf you paid for it then it's your game - not their game.
(Don't care if you ripped it yourself or not)
Exactly. This is settled law. Backing up your own games and playing them via emulation is legal and not copyright infringement. DMCA's should not apply here.
Like everything these days, ten bucks says "Naw you licensed it" with all these conditions attached.
Corporate fine print is so out of control in the 21st century.
These days it's all about the Retroactively Amended Personal Experience: changing the terms after the sale.
*I have altered the deal, pray I do not alter it further.*
Pretty much. There was something I read the other day about Uber drivers and liability in car accidents. Another wild read.
DeconceptualistRetro Games Corps got hit, even though Russ only does legal emulation and backups. It's his "2nd strike" on YouTube (3rd is channel deletion). He's always been mindful of the situation and considerate of not spoiling games or encouraging anything close to piracy from what I've seen.
Source: Nerd Nest where he often guests.
TheObviousSolutionA lot of those emulators, specially the SNES ones, make games better if not outright bearable. There's a lot of games that I could not have completed without spending an absurd amount of time on them without saved states. The Nintendo games out there aren't even exceptionally good, there are plenty of indie alternatives if people give them a chance. It's biggest plus is that the brand does act in a way many AAA publishers fail to do, an assurance of a basic degree of quality fun.
This might be the thing that pushes me into not buying Nintendo games anymore. I've always liked them despite the legal crap, but god damn.
GHiLAThey've been phoning their games in since the WiiU era anyway.
The last real Nintendo release I felt was original and packed with content was 3D World.
Everything since feels like they let interns design things en-masse and half bake most of their releases. Zelda and Mario get sandboxes, one 2D release in years, and remakes. There's Metroid Prime 4, but... if we're being real, it should've come out half a decade ago, not to mention tossing Gamefreak the BOTW engine and apparently not helping, at all with recent Pokemon games if the bugs are anything to go by, Smash netcode issues and not being taken seriously as a competitive sport, gatekeeping their classics behind worse in-house emulators than what you get for free on GitHub, you could write a book.
It’s fair to hate Nintendo, but “phoning it in” when we got BoTW, TotK, Mario Odyssey, Smash Ultimate, Xenoblade 2 and 3, Pikmin 4, FE three houses, Luigi’s mansion 3, Splatoon 2 and 3, and bayonetta 3 in the last 7 years? All these games can arguably considered the best in their respective series too.
Super Mario Odyssey is one of the best games ever made. And no, it's not a "sandbox". And certainly not phoned in. I enjoyed Super Mario Wonder too.
Also the new Zelda game that just came out the other day is pretty great.
john117There’s Metroid Prime 4, but… if we’re being real, it should’ve come out half a decade ago
tbf, they were on track to releasing it about 5 years ago, then they cancelled it cause it was not good.
and we have seen what happens when you release a game that should not have seen the light of day (concord lol)
agree with everything else though
Lvxferre [he/him]I wish that I had enough drawing skills to do this, but:
Imagine obese (morbidly so) versions of Mario and Pikachu. Both with blood on their mouths, and faces that strongly remind Goya's "Saturn Devouring His Son". Mario holds half of the body of a dead Tanzee (a Palworld pal), and is strongly implied to be eating it; Pikachu does it with the Yuzu logo, or something else.
There are only three things written in the whole picture.
- Top right corner: Nintendo's logo.
- Centre bottom: "we were starving", followed by "私たち二人は飢えていました。" (ditto; might as well check the grammar as I don't speak JP, I used a machine translator).
Sounds like a prompt for generative AI to sink its teeth into.
edit: Here's a starting point if someone with photochop skills wants to bring it to the finish line.
I tried GenAI. It simply doesn't get the vibe right, as it makes both Mario and Pikachu a bit too cheerful and tries to make the picture a bit too dynamic.
I'm trying to trace the characters over to see if I can output a somewhat decent sketch. At least to give people an idea of what I mean.
TheDemonBuerNintendo doesn't want you to play their games if you're not willing to follow their rules. Ok, that's their prerogative, but that means I will not be playing their games...at least not their new ones.
I prefer playing on my Steam Deck these days, and I really don't want to buy another handheld just to play Nintendo first party titles. I'm going to play some of my favorite classic Nintendo titles on my Deck using emulators and just not play the new stuff. I'm sure they're great games, but so what? There are lots of great games. I've got a huge backlog of great games already in my Steam library, and 20 more on my wishlist. If Nintendo some day decides to make their titles available for Steam Deck or PC, I'd consider buying them, but since that's extremely unlikely to happen, I think I'm just done with Nintendo.
Nintendo doesn't want you to play their games if you're not willing to follow their rules.
They don’t want you to play their games at all, seeing as they’re not selling them anymore.
That's not actually their prerogative. Protecting their IP is, so it's very legal for them to go after ROM sites, but emulation is perfectly legal and isn't copyright infringement. Legally speaking, sending out DMCAs to channels that feature footage of emulated games is frivolous and should not be taken seriously by Youtube. But it's Youtube. They hate their own users with a burning passion.
This is kinda like a advertisement that game emulation is at the point where it works as well as the consoles. The more attention this gets the more people will see this. I quit consoles a long time ago but its clear that they are not going to force anyone to purchase their products and its more likely that they will just drive people toward these emulators.
They're going to have a real big problem with this one because playing the games on an emulator isn't illegal so first they need to prove they don't own a legit copy and they need to figure that out before bringing suit.
_haha_oh_wow_
Toes♀
SturgistAs Russ notes, this is the second strike from Nintendo on his channel. The first, it's worth pointing out, was related to his coverage of a *device which allows you to dump Switch games to your computer*
[My emphasis]
It should be noted, the only way to legally play an emulated game is to dump the files off a cart/cd/floppy/w.e that you personally own. Which makes this even more egregious, as the video is about a device that *could* be used for piracy, but is also one of the only ways to legally make a backup of your property.
tehWrapperI feel like Nintendo licence agreement for all the games would have some clause your not allow to dump or run the game on other hardware.
I'm sure they do, however, as with 90%+ of most EULA's contents, that wouldn't stand up as legally binding in a fair number of countries.
Is there a Nintendo license agreement? I'm looking at a Switch game right now and see no "by opening you agree to TOS" language on the box. When I started the new Zelda a few days ago, there was no TOS acceptance.
While most software today has a license, and Nintendo's online store is different, unless I'm missing something it looks like only basic rules of law apply to the carts.
https://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/48058/
Pretty sure number 1 covers it, but I'm not a lawyer.
Hmm, it's been awhile since I set up my Switch. Yup, if the user must agree to this at Switch setup, then you're right.
That said a good lawyer would argue every game purchase is by default covered by its own right-of-first-sale and backup copy case law foundation, so would require a click wrap agreement affirmation to contravene that. Definitely that is required for each new game. So I think Nintendo's not on reliable legal ground at the very least.
That doesn't count for physical cartridges, especially not ones not even made by Nintendo lol.
Every cart is made by Nintendo first party or not.. its a proprietary media format..
Then give us a way to play those games. Oh no, wait we instead release a full price version of 3 Mario games for only a limited time..
Sounds like the environment they wish to cultivate, just like the Disney Vault.
Edit: not defending, it sounds like their products should move to obscurity, like anime in the 80's.
These assholes can't seem to grasp that emulation is the only reason their old games are still popular.
But they don’t care, do they ? It’s better for them if you stop playing the old game and buy the 1234th remake of Mario at full price on Switch
They don't do that. They have re-releases that are available for purchase for a month before they're gone, and then they rent you the old emulated games forever, on worse emulators, with no option to buy them.
Particularly with the modding scene. You can't exactly do a randomiser with the cartridge.
Fuck Nintendo. I refuse to buy any of their games anymore. If its something I want to play, I will pirate instead.
I just bought a Wii and a 3DS a year or two ago for the first time. CFW on both of them and packed them full of games. Had a blast.
In ten years I'll probably do the same with the switch.
There is already a r4 for switch I think
Is Nintendo trying to get people to not buy their games?
They want to run their fanbase away, yes
It's working, my desire to buy nintendo games is going down with every piece of news that comes out about them
Copying Nintendo games isn't only ethical; it's a moral obligation.
They have succeeded with me, fuck Nintendo
If they are, it unfortunately isn't working very well
They succeeded with me for the rest of this gen in March this year after killing Yuzu. I was originally going to wait to hack my Switch until the Switch 2 was released, but I went ahead and did it then.
It is absolutely shocking to me how long it is taking for fans to turn on Nintendo. They've done this hardcore corpo shit for years. They should have a public image far worse than EA by now.
The nostalgic love runs deep, I guess.
*raises hand*
As an owner of hundreds of Nintendo pieces from arcade to Switch... I've turned.
Original console or RPi3 with Lakka for classics on the Sony Trinitron, and GOG or Steam on Linux for anything new.
Look into a MiSTer FPGA. It's *way* better than a pi (latency!) for everything up to ps1/n64/Saturn
Don't remind me. I need a PVM to go with it. 😅 Although, I actually like the 240p composite video on the Trinitron TV, it looks exactly like it did back-in-the-day and indistiguishable from the real consoles' composite output.
The Lakka image I'm using is well-tuned with noticably less lag than some Pi setups I've seen. Interested Pi owners can find it here.
I can't find it, but someone has been collecting stats on input lag for many different USB gamepads/controllers as well.
I was shocked at how badly I was playing Symphony of the Night on a PS Vita TV with a DualShock 4... it turned out to be the input lag... of an real Sony controller on a real Sony console. Connect it by USB cable - noticable lag went away. 🤬
Honestly, with a 4k TV and a MiSTer, you can do some amazing things with shadowmasks and scanline filters, it looks *good*. And still, very very little latency (I can beat Tyson in Punch Out on an LCD display, no issues – try *that* on Lakka)
Retro Game Corps is the targeted channel in this video. He doesn't focus on piracy of games at all.
Mostly he does reviews of hardware and has some high effort videos.
He did make passing reference to the Migswitch which is why Nintendo is big mad.
Yep, no endorsement of piracy whatsoever. Just showing how to set up emus.
I don't even understand how this would be illegal. How is copyright being violated here? You aren't supposed to be able to file a frivolous DMCA.
Easy. YouTube doesn't want to deal with actual DMCA more than they have to, so they have their own system that lets big companies do whatever they want, whether the content is legal or not.
Most people don't actually understand how copyright works. And the actual right that's restricted is quite ridiculous but it is how it is...
Copyright is not a right given to the copyright holder, unlike every other *right* in law. Copyright is a exclusion placed on every other human being on earth from reproducing what you did (except few countries that didn't sign it but practically no one lives there or is a territory that effectively works under another sovereignty which does). This distinction is very important. That is, everytime something is created, every other human now has less freedom since they could do that thing before but no longer can. So if I create an original bunny like character, that is copyrighted to me. But I could always depict that and so could you--had you thought of it. But now you no longer can.
This means that virtually every thing made in relation to that original copyright becomes illegal unless you get permission from the copyright holder. There are exceptions such as transformative, parody, fair use, etc but I'll not get into that for now.
In other words specific to this case, every game footage on earth is illegal. But they only continue to exist by the grace of the companies not telling them to take it down. Some companies actually write into their EULA/terms that fan content, etc may be allowed, but again, those are the exceptions. The rule of law is that everything is illegal to start. And that only the copyright holder and its agents be able to request a punishment for breaking the law.
It's a system where it makes every normal human beings into a law breaking entity first and by doing so, it allows the copyright holder to punish anyone they see fit.
This is not a frivolous DMCA. And even if it was, there has been no case where that was ever punished. Even outright perjury for DMCA--which I've dealt with thousands of times doesn't actually get punished in practise.
Copyright is long past the point where lawyers and lawmakers need a good swift kick in the head as a reality check for thinking any of this is acceptable or deserving of merit.
I wish more people were aware of and as vocally critical of copyright laws as you.
I had some vague idea that it was bad, but holy shit...
Emulation is the only reason I still talk about or recommend Nintendo games
Hell, emulation is a lot of what I use my switch for!
I also own all of the Switch games I play on Switch, but Nintendo digital purchases are a no-go for me since they'll eventually turn off the servers, so I only buy physical and only play them once they've been ripped.
I've never been much of a Nintendo fan, but news like this makes me want to get into using Nintendo emulators.
Bad news everyone! They've already shutdown the best emulators. One if the best ceased development yesterday after some Nintendo strong-arming.
"Let the old games DIE!"
Nintendo with that big corpo energy
The device in the thumbnail is the Ayaneo Flip DS, for anyone else wondering. From a quick search, it runs Windows and is stupid expensive.
Never give Nintendo money.
Man, I know that clamshell Ayaneo is too expensive and that form factor isn't as good as I think it is... but I still really want one.
Oh, hey, is that you, Barbra?
Booooo....
If anyone pointed me towards a thing that helped me run things on steam deck, that would be neat.
Emudeck
Glad I hacked my switch before Nintendo all went to shit. I am done buying Nintendo products. (To be fair I will never have time to get through my back log anyway)
Emulation is the only reason I ever was a nintendo fan at all. I despised consoles for everything they stood for. Stripped down computers with a very shitty shelf life, and now paying for your own internet twice??? I used to emulate a lot and jumped on the delusion bandwagon that nintendo is good, which led me to beg my parents to buy me a wii and later a switch on launch day. Now that their games are also kinda shit, there's very little insensitive anyways. Fuck nintendo.
I would say the answer to avoid any of this would be to use homebrew games but I don't know if ones for harder systems to emulate (GameCube, PS2, etc) would be great for testing handheld emulators
Oh no, poor zetaplays! I love that guy
This is not even remotely new.