JollyPieFedThe Democratic party refused to understand that courting the right doesn't work, and now it's cost them the election
submitted by
edited
Ragdoll Xhttps://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/bdf31846-fea5-46ee-816a-83e1a49d8684.jpeg
If the Republicans are going to call the Democrats communists and socialist regardless of how moderate a campaign Democrats run, Democrats might as well lean further left on economic policy. Appealing to the right does nothing because the right can appeal to the right better than the center-left can
@leftism
None of that will work anymore. The far right owns the house, the senate, the government enforcement agencies, and the Supreme Court. We're nearing the end of the monopoly game and you don't get anything extra for landing on free parking. The restraints for any of the rich and powerful just got taken off.
Pretty much this. The Business Plot succeeded, it just took another 100 years. Now they have their Mussolini-like strongman, and a fully captured legislative and judicial system, all without a March on Rome.
What do you think January 6th was?
A beerhall putsch, a failed one, but still, it was a sign of what was yet to come...
Treason?
Well yeah, but it was also a literal march on our Capital.
They didn't even have to show up to the party or draw a direct line to the cannon fodder
This assumes the dems have any interest in actually improving the lives of Americans.
Jangling keys of "maybe if I get the senate I'll raise minimum wage? Do you want... Legal weed sometime?" sure works well. Just look at that electoral map!
Deleted by author
Just because they implement good policy from time to time doesn't mean they give a shit about Americans.
Deleted by author
Congrats on not even attempting to understand the point I'm making.
Which is precisely why they don't. They don't exist to threaten the establishment, *they are part of it*, and are there to provide *the illusion* of choice so that the public feel like we're helping while those in power do whatever they need to at our expense to keep that power. Playing by the rules and within the systems they have set out for us can and will only ever maintain the status quo.
This makes sense if one has never been in any sort of leadership role or public-facing organization before.
It’s true in very narrow senses which are stretched to breaking because really it isn’t true.
Joe Biden suddenly turns into Joe Stalin...
I can't believe the Dick Cheney fans forgot to vote
Tens, literally tens of voters Liz Cheney brought to the table.
But it's cool! She's the friend of bigots! That makes brown and queer people feel welcomed, right?
I was downvoted to oblivion for questioning this move as a campaign strategy. I wonder if I should look and see how that turned out.
Hey I was downvoted again for saying "I got downvoted for being right." Again, I was right.
As was I on here and reddit. It's crazy.
But Dick Cheney! Dick Cheney!
They gonna go hunting with him?
America's far left is just normal shit.
"Hey how about everybody gets food and can see the doctor"
"How about suck my dick and be my slave"
"Whoa whoa you two, let's be civil. Especially you, first guy 😠"
Too scared of the spooky communism👻👻
A spectre is haunting the United States 👻
America's left is what you describe as the far-left, but the far-left is much the same as it is everywhere else, Marxists and Anarchists. The far-left is relatively consistent internationally because its built on centuries of theory and practice.
America's democratic party is much further right than any left leaning European party. Yet, even in the countries where those are or have been in power, the scary communist vision American propaganda promoted never materialized. People's lives got just a little better as a whole in most cases.
American capitalism is a cancer just as much as communism is an unattainable utopia. The answer, as in most cases, lies in the middle, but that's something the American electorate really struggles to grasp.
First of all, I absolutely agree that the Democrats are a right-wing party, and the center-right European Social Democracies generally have higher living standards for most people than in America. However, I believe you have overlooked what I believe are critical factors, and you can correct me if I'm wrong here:
The Social Safety Nets in these Social Democracies are shrinking in most cases
Most of the Value consumed in these Social Democracies, the grear, vast majority, comes from countries in the Global South paid far less than the Value created for the Global North, meaning they depend on Imperialism
Disparity continues to rise as Capitalism continues to centralize into fewer and fewer larger and larger Monopolist syndicates, the trend is still towards instability
The reason they haven't "turned to Communism" is because they have never wanted to, they have been fundamentaly structured around Capitalism as the dominant Mode of Production and rely on Imperialism to subsidize their cost of living.
The reason *America* is different is because it is the global Hegemonic power. The "World Police." Why is it that the US outspends the rest of the world on the military? So it can project soft power all around the world, securing unequal trade deals with the wealthy Capitalist classes in the Global South. The world trades in US dollars, which the US fights to maintain because it profits from that. This internally causes hyper-disparity between the wealthy and the poor in America.
Finally, I want to ask why you say Communism is an "unattainable utopia." Marxists have thus far been proven correct in their thesis that markets trend towards centralization through competition over time, and that as firms get larger they begin to develop infrastructure for their own internalized planning. The concept of a fully publicly owned, centrally planned economy is built up by Capitalism itself. That's without speaking to the fact that there are already Socialist states working towards said goal of full public ownership and central planning.
Why do you say the answer is a "middle ground?" What does this look like?
Honestly... I'm not sure at this point. I was somewhat nihilistic before, but these past few years have brought that sentiment to a whole new level for me...
The main limiting factor towards a true communist utopia is one: we're human. As such, we are unfortunately individualistic by nature, and it's been proven time and time again that the accumulation of wealth and power only strengthens that sentiment in the vast majority of the population. Under these constraints, I don't see a path to fully public, decentralized governance and economic equality, someone will always attempt to centralize both.
What can be done is increase regulations, break up monopolies, put on safety guards and ensure better redistribution, and use, of wealth by increasing taxes to the ruling class. So basically yeah, some form of democratic socialism.
But then again, since decisions are made by the ruling class, that is unlikely to happen, it's not in their best interest.
And as we've seen this time around, you just can't beat stupidity. All the good intentions and overwhelming proof in the world won't do you any good if people are unwilling to listen. Oftentimes, even the highly educated are unwilling to listen, what chance do you have with the average person?
I'll address what you said in a moment, but I really do think you should read theory. If nihilism is overtaking you, in my opinion that means you have likely not properly analyzed our conditions, nor how to fix them. I keep an "introduction to Marxist theory" reading list I can link if you want.
First, no Communist is "Utopian." Utopianism refers to the strategy of trying to *figure out* the right formula and directly create it, rather than analyzing existing structures and where they are headed. Communists analyze Capitalism and advocate for Socialism because Capitalism creates the conditions for Socicalism naturally, over time, by forming monopolies that can be folded into the public sector and centrally planned.
Secondly, you are making a critical misunderstanding of Communism. Communism is fully publicly owned and *centrally planned.* This is the entire purpose of public ownership, once you have public ownership you can plan things centrally, along democratic lines.
Thirdly, human values and thinking is guided by their social relations and material conditions. In Capitalism, a highly individualistic system filled with competition, these values are expressed at greater levels among Capital Owners. However, as it centralizes, the working class becomes more associated, and communal values are expressed at greater levels. This process has been reflected throughout all of history, from the tight-knit family structure of Feudalism to the modern era, the Mode of Production has formed the Base of society, and influenced the laws, culture, art, and so forth forming the Superstructure that reinforces the base, in a cycle that continues to evolve over time as one Mode of Production slowly leads to the next.
As per your "Democratic Socialism," you are describing "Social Democracy." There is nothing Socialist about what you described, a Capitalist state with large safety nets is Capitalist regardless. As such, you retain the inherent unsustainability of Capitalism and the further rising disparity it contains, until it is eventually overthrown and Socialism is achieved.
Regarding people's receptions to ideas, this gets back to the Base and Superstructure argument. As the Base shifts over time, people become accepting of new ideas and values. Focusing on literacy and organizing are the best ways to increase social awareness of systemic issues, and figuring out how to solve them.
I maintain that you should read theory. I can offer a reading list, or answer any questions you might have. I don't think it's fair for you to denounce Communism as impossible if you haven't engaged with the literature enough to fully understand what it even is, or how Communists want to achieve it and why they believe it not only to be possible, but necessary.
Remember Primaries? Of course that would require the DNC not to turn out the lights when they hear something they don't like.
"But you had one with Biden and he appointed Harris so you chose that!!!"
"I didn't hear anyone calling for other candidates."
That was a response I got from a guy when I brought up the botched primary all thanks to Biden's hubris.
Like, no shit Sherlock, we *couldn't* call for anyone else, there was no time!
My ballot had two choices: Biden and uncommitted. I voted uncommitted.
A primary with one name on the ballot is not a primary.
Biden left his run so late they just appointed someone else and "that'll do!"
And then called us naive idealists for wanting... *Checks notes* democracy when the democracy is at stake.
Yea but they won’t court the “left”(what little of a left exists in America) because the DNC doesn’t want leftist or even center-left policies, they like and want center-right policies that republicans 30 years ago pushed.
Yup. Democratic leadership would rather trump win than run a left-facing campaign and candidate. What's the definition of insanity?
The Democratic Party is basically dead now. Time to sit back and watch the MAGAs eat themselves. Clock ticking.
Magas will eat a lot of good people first, unfortunately. And the show will be extended over many years. Another enemy or bad group will always be found.
The "and then they came for" moment won't hit critical mass for aomg time if ever. It's terrifying to think how long an authoritarian group could maintain power with the technology and military power available today.
The Democratic Party is basically dead now. Time to sit back and watch the MAGAs eat themselves. Clock ticking.
Well that’s one way to look at this positively.
How do you see this going down? Internal power struggles and tantrum hissy fits?
Democratic leadership has to call corporate donors before they can make any decisions
100%
Here in deep-red Missouri the $15 minimum wage passed in a landslide, but for some reason, all Democrats wanted to talk about was tax cuts that no one thinks they'll actually pass anyway.
Democratic consultants. The problem.
Democratic Party : Republican Party :: Washington Generals : Harlem Globetrotters
Democratic leadership is those of us who do the thankless work of playing politics to help others.
Find something different. You won’t. Sure Progressive Party Whatever - they’ll run into the exact same thing. You’re re-inventing the wheel because you don’t know that.
That’s…
I’m not sure we’re all talking about the same thing. The Democratic Party has been playing to the “center” longer than any of us have been alive, while shunning, excommunicating, and often literally arresting anyone to the left. And all that accomplishes and has ever accomplished is the Overton window shifting further and further right. Kamala was running on bragging about hiring “the good” republicans while sidestepping the massive issues anyone even slightly progressive wanted to talk about (and what almost surely turned off a huge portion of voters), which is the ongoing genocide in Gaza. She finally said the day before the election that she would do “everything in her power to end the war,” which is still not nearly enough when discussing a fuckin genocide.
So many of the people I know are leftists. None of them voted for her because of it. Sure, the democrats and liberals I know did—my parents, for example. But they have voted democrat the entire time I’ve been alive. They are solid, reliable Dem voters. They’re not the people she needed to appeal to either—but keeping them was certainly more important than any mythical “centrist/swing” voter.
Everyone that was arrested for sitting in school buildings protesting the genocide, everyone who is sickened by what we’re seeing. Who couldn’t stomach voting for someone who didn’t feel the need to say it was a genocide that sickens them. THOSE are the people the dems gain when, like in 2020, things are so bad they hold their noses and increase turnout, and they’re the votes they lose when they hold office and maintain the genocidal status quo.
Deleted by author
Yeah, that’s definitely not what that meant.
Yeah no. I hate the democrats, I'm a registered libertarian. The popular vote said they're fine with project 2025.
I don't really care what issues anyone had. It was exesetential. We failed. That's not a party issue, it's an American issue. I don't care about turnout, if you didn't turn out you don't care. Thats not on the party that's on you. I don't care about policy, it's all about to get worse, we've seen it. Parties cease to matter when there's dead bodies in the halls of government. We all *saw* the worst fucking coup attempt in history... And it worked. There is no party to blame for that. 2016 came down to poor leadership, this is just... deserved.
We'll see what's left to re-build with.
It is a party issue. The reason Democrats couldn't effectively run on the issue of democracy is that they THEMSELVES did not treat Trump as a threat to democracy. Actions speak louder than words. Democrats called Trump a fascist and a threat to democracy. But they didn't even start an investigation of him til two years into the Biden term. That man should have been arrested day one, hauled in front of a military tribunal, charged with treason, and dealt with accordingly. Any SCOTUS justices that tried to prevent this should have been charged as accessories after the fact and similarly tried as enemies of the republic.
THAT is the rational response to a former president that tried to overthrow the government. Trump should have been six feet under before Biden finished his first 100 days. That is the kind of urgency that is needed when a true existential threat is present. Look what happens when a random citizen tries to walk into the White House carrying a rifle. Do you think they weigh the political calculus of dealing with the person and how to respond to them without angering voters? No, they do what is necessary, then and there. That is what you do in an emergency.
What kind of existential threat do you just ignore for two years and then slow-walk? If China were invading Hawaii, would we move with that kind of sloth? No, an existential threat requires immediate action. By giving so much deference to Trump, Biden made extremely clear that he didn't believe Trump to be an existential threat to democracy. Entirely because of his actions, any later campaign pleas about the threat of Trump fell of deaf ears. If the president of the United States won't take something seriously as a threat to democracy, why would anyone expect voters to?
I don't disagree they did a bad job. Clearly. Again, I don't even like them in the first place for similar reasons. What I'm saying is there was exactly one way to avoid all of this this week, and we all signed off on it. The democrats didn't make anyone stay home. The democrats didn't make anyone vote for Trump. Individuals can't take the action you described above, but they had an option to stop it from getting worse, and chose not to.
If you think the party is busted fine, I freaking agree. It's not picking evil from the lesser of the two, it's picking who you want to fight.
Again I'll say, the dems didn't do this, we all did. The dysfunction of a party doesn't excuse individuals had a choice, and chose this.
That's intentional. A conscious decision made by the DNC.
They don't want to give up their share of rich donors and insider trading privileges.
Exactly. In bourgeois "democracy" political parties serve the wealthy Capitalists and Imperialists that can afford to buy them. Socialism is the only path to actual democracy.
Somebody is paying attention.
Yay oligarchy.
Democrats just aren't going to be the progressive party. How many times are you going to fail to learn this lesson?
The DNC actively kneecapped Bernie Sanders twice. And the SCOTUS said it was their perogative.
Without a Sanders platform from which to pilfer popular talking points, the Dems had zip. That doesn't get John Q out of his Lazyboy. As the results showed.
The problem with that strategy is that moderate Republicans don't watch the news. They believe that all other Republicans are just like them and hold all the same beliefs, because all their friends are in the same echo chamber. So then they believe all Republican politicians are the same way. They intentionally don't pay attention to the news because it is full of sensationalism and depressing things they can't personally control like terrorism and mass shootings. They still believe it's important to vote, because that's the patriotic thing to do, and they can just fill the bubbles next to every name marked REP and not have to worry about doing research and learning facts. It's just the easy way and they've lived their whole lives doing things the easy way because of white privilege and generational wealth, but any low points in their lives they will consider to be "hardship" so they "know" that anyone living in poverty is just not trying hard enough, because they personally made it through that "struggle" with barely more than the average effort they usually contribute to anything.
How do I know this? I was raised in a family that is exactly how I described here. The only reason I'm not just like them is that I went to public school and made friends with kids who did not come from the same background. It took about 17 years to finally see all the flawed logic and head-in-sandness before finally breaking free and forging my own path based on my own beliefs.
Looked at the dem votes for the last few elections and it looked consistent except for biden. Who somehow got way more than normal.
2008 69 mil
2012 65 mil
2016 65 mil
2020 81 mil
2024 66 mil
votes for Biden were "anything oh god anything but this."
So I guess we do this again in four years? Assuming elections are still a thing.
If elections still exist, and the Democratic Party still hasn't been deposed, yes. We'll likely have a mass of people voting to get rid of Trump's chaos for anyone else, and the Dems will receive a boost. Then, when they run the same milquetoast candidate 4 years later with nothing to offer but "better than the alternative," they'll fail again.
It's basically the same back and forth pendulum as before, but accelerated. Now incumbents can't even expect to receive all 8 years before the pendulum shifts.
You're probably right, but I hate that you're probably right. No fault of yours.
It's okay, I hate that I'm probably right too. Today has been a really shitty day for being right. I'm probably going to spend the rest of my life thinking about how this last decade went, and if there was anything more I could have done.
I think I'm just done. as many Democrats as Ive voted for and the best they can do is "Not as actively evil?" tired of it. Starting to think if we're going to hell on a bucket maybe I should be the one holding the handle.
The dems are not our party. I don't they ever will be in the foreseeable future.
The issue is not making the dems win but stopping the GOP.
Yeah but it didn't carry. Guess everyone forgot Trump.
The Biden campaign offered *something*, notably student loan forgiveness, but both Clinton and Harris's campaigns relied on the dumbfuck Pied Piper strategy that they would offer nothing to the voters other than being not-Trump.
That's a dumb fucking strategy because there are fewer people that will vote Democrat as the lesser evil than will vote Republican just because Republican. They *have* to court people with policies they actually want.
And the absolute crazy thing is they tried this in 2016 and it failed, yet somehow had the balls to try again when it mattered more.
They could blame 2016 on Hillary, not on the "I'm not him" strategy. Go figure that a 20+ year campaign to paint a woman as the literal devil would in fact cause problems for her at the ballot box, right? Who would have guessed except for anyone with a functional frontal cortex?
The Harris campaign sent BOTH Clintons out to "rally" voters. So Hillary went to *Florida.*
And Bill went to Michigan and spent his time browbeating the Muslim community there about the war in Gaza.
Who OK'd this? Were they born in the heart of a dying star, cause they must be the densest mofuckas on Earth.
Tbf, you would have to hate yourself a lot to look at trump and say "eh... i dont agree with him and he's likely to completely fuck the country and endanger millions of innocent lives.. but look! The democrats are only saying that they arent trump. I better not do a damn thing and hope for the best!"
I guess democrats are just are idiotic and short visioned as republicans. Perhaps they are in fact the same.
The Harris campaign put out an 80 page policy guidebook explaining what they were offering. Stop denying responsibility from the voters. A bunch of people wanted this and a bunch of others figured this was better than rallying around the one viable alternative, be it a form a protest or laziness. Voters are ultimately responsible for who we collectively elect.
The average US citizen is not going to sit down and parse through 80 pages of policy. Why the fuck didn't she promote it in interviews? Every speech and interview I have seen she just skirts around questions and gives vague answers, very frequently repeating herself almost verbatim. It really didn't inspire confidence. And I say this as someone who voted for her.
If she had a playbook, she ignored it and didn't talk about it. Despite people begging for policies.
Trump has one, played dumb and wants to do it. Despite it being evil.
I wonder who won?
Vanishingly few voters read white papers. If that stuff isn't messaged then it doesn't matter. And a convention of "joy" wasn't it.
Also the only white male in those years…
I had the same thought....
All of the Zionists need to be tossed out.
Can you send the primary source for those numbers. I was looking for this information weeks ago and couldn't find it.
Israel actually doesn't matter to most Americans, sad as it is.
That's about to change.
Why? Boots on the ground? What was the attention span for troops in Afghanistan?
The time it was a lot of attention same with the Vietnam war. It will create a left push.
A part of me want the yanks to get their ass kicked by iran like they had their asses kicked by the vietcongs and the talibans.
One quote from last night stuck with me (though I can't remember who said it): "Republicans have been trying to grow their party for 4 years. Democrats have only been trying to grow their party for 4 months."
meanwhile im already seeing "moderate" "pundits" saying the reason Harris lost is because she was too woke and Democrats need to move further right 🙃
Deleted by author
"When they go low, we go high", Obama said..... only to be met with "You go high, we'll go low, because low gets us votes."
In part, yes, but it's a more complicated issue though. It's a death by thousand cuts.
There's also the whole doubling-down on the Israel-Palestine conflict, Twitter propping up the far-right everywhere it can, etc.
I find this whole Israel-Palestine vote-boycott so stupid and irritating.
Did anyone ever think beyond virtue-signaling? What were they hoping, that Trump forgets he wants to stand behind Nettanyahu no matter what?
In order to "boycott" a "fascist President", they let their own country elect another one. Great, now there are two of them.
Seriously, they want to "stop fascism at all costs", but when they actually have the chance to stop a fascist from taking office, they refuse.
I have lost all hope for humanity, have a nice day.
Imagine if the election had been between Cheney and Trump... Would you have bothered to show up? I wouldn't have. I'm not saying Kamala is actually as bad as Cheney (who I consider to be the most evil human on earth) but for young people barely paying attention, or paying a lot of attention to the whole getting arrested for protesting genocide thing, they might not have seen much difference and felt turned off by the whole thing, so didn't show up.
The question is, why would 10 million Biden voters, not show up this time? And I think the answer is, no one gave them a good enough reason to... And that's on the Dems who should have been figuring out what those people want and promising to fight for it instead of figuring out what maga wants and fighting for that
The harris campaign decided to be pro-war and buddy up with incredibly unpopular warmonger dick cheney.
She put no significant distance between her foreign policy and trump's. If you really think lemmy lefties are the reason harris lost then you probably haven't been outside in a long time
"Are the Russian bots in the room with us right now, or only outside so you don't come in contact with reality?"
They can be satisfied they did less than nothing when Gaza is turned into a parking lot for the newest Israeli Megamall.
Then again, since it apparently didn't matter either way, I guess there was no hope for the Palestinians. Maybe they'll all be reincarnated as white people next time around as a universal consolation prize or something lol
They refuse to actually campaign and address people's concerns. They gaslight, minimize, denigrate, guilt trip, and verbally abuse people and then are surprised Pikachu when no one is happy or motivated to vote for them.
"You owe it to your country to vote." "You are a bad person/stupid/russian shill etc if you vote for anyone but Kamala."
These things just stroke your ego and are otherwise thought terminating. They do not get votes. Like holy fuck, if you just listen to people's concerns and talk with them, it tends to work.
But with Citizens united, campaigns focus around a capitalist spending strategy like it's Election Christmas. Bernie Sanders, Stacey Abrams, and AOC all had what I'd call "authentic" campaigns, where they requested help with canvassing and phone calls before they requested donations. Like donations were fine, but most emails and texts were asking for workers, volunteers, and physical help. Those requests were completely absent from Kamala's campaign.
The status quo just doesn't want the common person to have political literacy. If they teach us how to canvas, then we'll do it for someone who isn't status quo. If they show us how to run for office, then we will just run ourselves like AOC did. They are in direct conflict with themselves because they are trying to suppress anything except status quo Dems.
How's that "Schumer Strategy" working out for ya?
The DNC knew it would fail. That was the plan. Perhaps not this spectacularly, but they knew it wouldn't work. They did their job. They defended the interests of Capital.
Deleted by author
Yeah, they're just passing the buck to the people responsible for winning votes who made every decision about how to run the campaign that lost.
That's sarcasm, by the way. I know how thick you people can be, so I thought I’d just point that out.
We’re adults here. It’s our choice to vote or not. I really dislike the implication that handholding voters to the ballot box is necessary. Yeah, the DNC f’s up plenty, but at the end of the day people that should have voted, didn’t.
And I really dislike the implication that voters should be expected to change to meet the campaigns that politicians want to run as opposed to politicians changing their campaigns based around what the voters want.
The blame should *always* go upwards, but instead it's always pointed downward.
Preach
The choice was between a potential dictatorship and a mealy neoliberal. At some point it doesn’t matter you weren’t catered to. Failing to vote is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
I hope voters like the change that will be forced on them with this new administration seeing as they couldn’t change their self interest enough to vote. Or will they just play the victim, taking up the Republican’s mantle and blame everyone else for the situation they find themselves in?
I have zero sympathy.
Who gives a shit about your sympathy? What matters is what can be changed in the future to prevent this outcome from happening again.
You seem to think the thing that needs to change is voters at large. I have no idea what your plan is to make that happen other than condescending lectures and shaming people into obedience, which, good luck with that. The things I'm saying should be done differently would only require a handful of politicians to change. So the question is, is it easier to change how a couple politicians behave, or how all of society behaves?
Exactly.
The people who didn't vote wanted Harris less than they wanted Trump.
They are allowed to have that opinion.
Get organized. Join a Leftist org, find solidarity with fellow comrades, and protect each other. The Dems will not save you, it is up to the Workers to protect themselves. The Party for Socialism and Liberation and Freedom Road Socialist Organization both organize year round, every year, because the battle for progress is a constant struggle, not a single election. See if there is a chapter near you, or start one! Or, see if there's an org you like more near you and join it, the point is that organizing is the best thing any leftist can do.
Read theory. A good primer is *Blackshirts and Reds*. It will help contextualize what fascism is, what causes it, and how to stop it. I can offer a good introductory reading list regarding Marxism if you'd like, but this is a good starting point.
Aggressively combat white supremacy, misogyny, queerphobia, and other attacks on marginalized communities. Cede no ground.
Be more industrious, and self-sufficient. Take up gardening, home repair, tinkering. It is through practice that you elevate your problem-solving capabilities. Not only will you improve your skill at one subject, but your general problem-solving muscles get strengthened as well. Theory guides practice, which sharpens theory to be reapplied to better practice.
Learn self-defense. Get armed, if practical. Be ready to protect yourself and others. The Democrats will not save us, we must save each other.
Be persistent. If you feel like a single water driplet against a mountain, think of the Grand Canyon. Oh, how our efforts pile up! With consistency, every rock, boulder, even mountain, can be drilled through with nothing but steady and persistent water droplets.
https://www.optionsri.org/post/chattering-classes-activism-is-the-best-remedy-to-authoritarianism
Rest, recuperate, get into a sustainable rhythm. Only we will keep us safe.
If I had canvassed for Harris in Tennessee I'd have been shot.
It's almost as though -maybe, just maybe- the people who are registered Republicans like the Republican Party.
For this groundbreaking insight, I'll take my $20k/month consulting fee from the DNC now.
After everything that's happened with trump, you guys elect him the 2nd time.
You guys suck.
I mean, there's a whole lot that went wrong, but the big one was subverting the democratic process with primaries that didn't really pick a popular candidate (2016 and 2024).
The primaries are the time for the candidate to energize a base of support. Harris has never energized anybody, and it was silly to think that affection for Biden would carry her.
Conservatives vote in force to signal their loyalty to their chosen community.
Progressives stay home when they perceive that their community doesn't chose them. Harris' vote totals at the end of this will sit somewhere below Biden 2020, for that reason.
I wouldn't leave 2020 out. Having politicians ahead of Joe Biden pull out to endorse him ahead of super Tuesday was really irregular and didn't result in a good candidate either
There werent primaries. None of the challengers had sufficient ballot access.
Absolutely, we need to place blame where it belongs. Democrats fucked up bad, it is basically 2016 all over again
It's worse.
Everyone is terrible here. In the past I could forgive Republicans because "they didn't get who he was." They know and don't care. Billionaires fighting each other over who gets hegemony is boring. This is their world and we just happen to live here.
Then instead of blaming one half of the establishment, blame the establishment itself. It is working exactly as it is designed to.
It's pretty stupid of Dems to think that white conservative racists are going to vote for a black-indian woman? WHAT were they thinking?!!!
They were thinking exactly what they were paid to think.
Deleted by moderator
No leftist would be bragging about a Trump win. A leftist would be worried about the people who are in danger now. You're not a leftist if this is your belief.
I wouldn't brag about kamala either.
Their comment history is fucking insane. They appear to support accelerationism, so they got what they wanted.
Wow, you know empathy is free, right?
Nah, for some people empathy has the insurmountable cost of destroying the world view which puts them on top.
What % of total voters is a "registered republican"?
Roughly a third
Why is this third considered to be representative of the "moderate republican"?
Look, I just got my coffee, it's four am, and you are asking me to effectively explain the previous 40 years of American politics to you.
I want to trust that you are asking in good faith, and that you deserve an explanation here, but I'm burnt out in the equivocation right now. So just give me a small signal that my time isn't wasted here and I can explain this to you .
I'm sorry. To me it seemed like something the more politically involved voter would do.
I don’t think that’s the response they were after.
You could have tried something like:
See I acknowledged OPs comment and tried to explain my motivations for the question. You, on the other hand, you called them out for rightfully wanting to value their time.
That's alright. Simply trying to understand the relationship between that graph, and the conclusion the author took from that.
But I see now that this might not be the appropriate crowd to help me understand.
There’s no way to know exactly. Some states don’t disclose the voter registration statistics. North Dakota doesn’t even require party registration to vote.
WAIT YOU HAVE TO BE REGISTERED TO A PARTY TO VOTE?!?
what the actual fuck. how does that not subvert the secret ballot???
Many Americans such as myself are registered as Independents.
Or not registered with any party and are little "I" independent. Some states have Independent candidates or parties. I wrote a "ySK" about it early this year around primary time and was accused of misinformation by people who don't understand different states have different party registrations and laws. I wrote the post as someone smart I knew thought they had to register as an Independent party voter to "not be a Republican or Democrat".
You’re not required to vote in alignment with your registration. It simply allows you to vote in the primary for your party.
I switch my registration to Republican when there’s a Democratic incumbent so I can vote in the primary.
You have to register as x or y to be allowed to vote though?? Like I knew all the other fucked up parts of the whole US system, but this just fundamentally breaks the secret ballot. It doesn't matter if you don't *have* to align your actual vote.
It's like y'all saw us (Australia) doing the secret vote thing and thought "how could we fuck up implementing that?"...
You can register without party affiliation, or under under any party, not just Republican or Democrat.
It's not just about your vote being secret *from* others though? It's about *you* not being able to make your vote known to others as well!
Happy to say that I was in the 6% and 5%.
I don't know how normal it is to be registered in the US but I would assume the target were moderate voters, not party members
In many states you have to be registered if you want to vote in the primary. I would imagine most active voters are registered.
Thanks for the context. Makes sense. Do you register each time anew? In that case I would assume people stick with what they registered for. But on the other side, people might register for voting a more moderate candidate and don't want Trump and vote Democrats. I guess that's what the post is about. Now I get it.
Once you're registered you stay that way unless you want to switch parties or you move.
Maybe if they got a couple more celebrities to endorse Harris she would have won. Or maybe all the celebrities could have sung Imagine like what they did during COVID.
No, you ignorant fool... they needed more scorned establishment Republican figures to support her. Liz Cheney wasn't powerful enough, that much is clear now. The absolute genius of having our vehemently pro-choice candidate on stage accepting the endorsement of rabidly anti-abortion figures almost payed off. It's the voters who were wrong!
Maybe they could have been endorsed by colin powell and oliver north.
Did GWB ever get around to endorsing her?
How does anyone know who voted for what?
Exit polls - voluntary responders only
Ohh.
but then that makes it very likely that some republicans who actually voted democrat just pretended to have voted republican in order to maintain their standing in their community.
who said that you should never trust a statistic you faked yourself?
Yeah I was just thinking that. It really ignores the point of votes being in secret. How many people in Salem self identified as a witch?
So, you don't trust any poll where people self-report the information?
You don't mean that. You're just saying that in order to maintain your standing in your community.
.. see how rude that is to just assume people are lying about themselves as if you know better?
It's not rude to assume a population percentage is lying to protect themselves. They SHOULD be lying to protect themselves. How many witches self identified in Salem? Do you not understand the point of votes being secret? Nobody wants to put a political target on their back.
'Decline to answer' is a valid option for those people and they don't get included in these polls.
You're making speculations as to why they voted the way they said they did, but that's unknowable. Your guess is just as good as mine, which is why it's rude to assume yours is the right guess.
I'm making zero speculations. None. I haven't decided anything. I'm questioning the speculations OP is making. You're arguing with me right now because you don't like how I'm questioning your attack on others.
They will never court the left, never.
Hey, I'll probably delete my account soon because I shilled so hard for this campaign and it feels so gross. I knew day one enthusiasm was going to sink the dems and pushed back against the apathy as hard as I could. I was pretty devastated when kamala took the stage at the DNC and gave her support for, "a strong military" and talked about her gun or what ever. After that was just going through the motions and convincing myself I wasn't crazy for not wanting trump to win this badly.
The way I see it now, and will remember as we go in the future the DNC offers nothing. That's not fair, they do a lot of good for state and local governments but at a federal level, they will never be able to effect real change. Maybe it's because the way the fed is setup or for what ever other reason. It's not that the leadership has failed, it's that they can't win. I've hopped to lots of different possible solutions for Americans over the years and I guess there is one way out. Until we see liberals migrate away from the cities and take root in the land we will never have a government that represents them. That's where the war will be fought. Until then, even if Trump doesn't crown himself king asshole it's the RNC's game the DNC just resets the board.
I am sorry, but this is not going to happen. Liberals are found in cities because of class interests, not genetic opinions. People's ideas are driven by their material conditions. But, hope is not lost. The Dems are, but they were never a path out, they represent their donors above all else.
Revolution is *necessary.* Voting can't get us there. I recommend reading *Reform or Revolution* and *The State and Revolution* for why reform is pretty much impossible and revolution is necessary.
I can offer a good intro list to Marxism if you'd like, or answer any questions you may have.
I think the Democrats needed a solid message and populist policy. The "opportunity economy" sounded like a vague platitude, and her policies were weak tea like increasing the child tax credit and helping to fund down payments on houses.
It's the populist policy that's the hanging point. The DNC Services Corp will never let that happen. They're all too happy to let fascists win and fundraise off the fallout.
This country is cooked. The empire is finally dying. My big concern is that this empire has nukes it will use on the way down.
We're on track to becoming Russia, and Russia hasn't used their nukes yet.
The problem, the worlld is now confirmed as knowing already, is that Americans are, for want of a better word, scum.
This right here is why the Republicans won. All I see below me is finger pointing and blame tossing. Republicans have got their shit on lockdown. You guys can't even figure out who to blame.
They know exactly who is to blame. But that would involve some degree of self-reflection so, on with the show.. i guess.
It's easy to look like they "got their shit on lockdown" when they're straight-up copying the fascist playbook.
The blame game isn't helpful, though. Divide and conquer is from that same fascist playbook. Blaming anyone except the Republican establishment serves only to diminish their primary role in this situation, and further divide us from each other. We have to stop attacking fellow victims and put that blame squarely where it belongs.
Why did they even have to work so hard for your young left vote? You saw the alternative, and you knew the consequences to staying home. You will suffer it not their party. I thought you guys were the smart ones and would know to take the lesser of two evils, instead of standing to the side to let the worst one in. And again you will suffer, no matter how much you say "that's what Democrats get I hope they learn", while you burn.
Anyways I just don't get it guys. Sometimes in life you have to eat shit and like it. But instead you decided to cut off your nose to spite your face.
-a very disappointed Canadian of color
they didn't have to work hard. they just had to not genocide and toss some red corporate meat on the fire for the masses to devour. sadly even that was too heavy a lift for them.
I'm a trotskyist and care very little for capitalist mouth peaces. Most socialists and anarchist have similar sentients.
You may have us confused for liberals.
So many times I saw people on Lemmy saying they weren't going to vote because of [insert Reason X]
Everytime I told them they should, I was brushed off with some stupid Argument.
Well, I congratulate everyone who did that. You now live in a country headed by someone openly flirting with fascism. I really hope [Reason X] was worth it. And I really hope [Reason X] won't get worse under Trump (it will). You failed to prevent a fascist from raising to power just so you could virtue-signal.
Really think it was the the leader not offering enough.
I genuinely think it can be both. Voters were too short-sighted to see their self-interest and Dem leaders didn't convince them
That is your Opinion, and you're entitled to that.
But all of those that decided not to vote could have stopped the rise of fascism and chose not to.
I don't blame that on the opposition. I blame that on those accepting its rise and refusing to stop it.
You don't blame the fascism on the literal fascists?
Interesting
You can blame the fascism on the literal fascists. They're backed by the neo-monarchists who have tons of money to spend (and spent it!) converting discontents into more fascists.
Do you want to blame the discontents without a reasonable option who saw their news agencies and social media pointing towards the new Mussolini? There's millions of them, and they can barely reason to tie their own shoes. The GOP has been banking on them since the 1970s, though the propaganda projects started when great depression living conditions weren't sweet enough for the proletariat, and FDR created the New Deal to stop communist revolution.
It's why in the states communism is a word of disparagement when the alternative is monarchism, and capitalism always drifts towards autocracy, then monarchism, and then collapse.
Blame who you want, but ultimately it is a machine running on natural forces. Even in the end of this campaign (when -- in retrospect -- it was already too late) the media was trying to inform some people (who?) that the comparisons between the Trump campaign and policies, and Hitler's campaign and policies were very similar, enough to call both one-party autocracy propped up by fascist enemy-within rhetoric.
Nothing to do now but watch everyone get what they bought and paid for.
I think you missed that they know that they're Nazis and are proud of it.
Don't blame people for wanting to hide from the nazis
There's nothing wrong with hiding from Nazis.
But I think the election shows us the human species can't help itself but become hateful when confronted with perpetual precarity or perpetual scarcity. If we want a rational society it won't be monarchist or capitalist. If we want to distribute power, we won't get those who have excess power to give it up willingly.
Harris lost by significant margins. Lemmy lefties had no impact on this outcome.
Not just here. This was on all social media
Social media lefties had no significant impact on this outcome. Twitter is not real life
I doubt that. Consider what we saw with all of the COVID disinformation on social media. I think the idea that social media has no impact on election results is very wrong.
Extremely wrong
It has an impact on right wingers, not normies or center/left people
The democrats shifted right, and yet the fault is still on those that didn't vote?
yes. yes, it is. Those that didn't vote failed to stop fascism from rising.
Even if you think that Democrats are too conservative, the alternative you chose and got is Trump.
Also the phrase goes "stop fascism at all costs" not "stop fascism at all costs except when the alternative has shifted a bit to the right (but in no way as far as the fascists we would be trying to stop) and now is too conservative for you"
The Democratic party, who failed to rally non-voters and instead chose to try and court Republican voters to their cause, failed to stop fascism from rising.
Stop blaming voters for politicians running on unpopular policies. I've checked repeatedly today, Harris lost Michigan by under 100,000 votes, but there were *over 100,000 protest votes* during the primary.
*Before the election,* 35% of Pennsylvania voters and 37% of Arizona voters polled said they would be more likely to vote for Harris if they would agree to cease weapons shipments to Israel without contingencies. The DNC sent Bill Clinton to lecture the residents of Michigan about why Israel is justified in killing their loved ones instead of, idk, taking a stance that could win you much needed votes in a swing state. They brought Republican after Republican to speak at the DNC, but allotted no time for Palestinian Democrats to speak.
They gave their own constituents the middle finger, like *always,* while demanding their unwavering support. All while being more concerned about trying to win over Republicans instead of rallying their own non-voters to the polls.
Gee, that sure worked out great for them, is *that* the voter's fault too? It's astounding how the same people who were insulting and condescending to conflicted Dem voters the last couple weeks are now screeching and crying that it's the fault of the people they insulted and bullied that they lost.
Y'all don't have mirrors you can look in? Maybe start there, and understand why you can't dismiss the concerns of entire swaths of your constituency and still feel entitled to their support, regardless of the dire threat that the *Democrats* didn't take seriously enough.
Hard to argue against these points. The DNC does not know how to play to win. It's like they're all living in 1998. Moreover, they don't seem to *want* to win. Which is palpable. They are woefully out of touch and it seems incredibly difficult to pierce the veil of sanctimony that enshrouds the party elites.
The DNC's abject blunders have committed America to 12 continuous years now without any effective government. Which is untenable. The message to Dem elites needs to be crystal clear: You aint gotta go home, but you can't stay here. Retire, or otherwise fuck off.
"If liberals are so fucking smart why do they lose so goddamn always?"
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it."
--Upton Sinclair
"Vote for my shitty policies or the other guy will have shittier policies" is not a platform.
The point of a democratic republic is that elected officials enact the policies those who elect them want. If you don't offer to enact those policies *you don't get elected*.
Yes, non-voters were stupid to not vote for the lesser evil, but the Harris campaign violated the very basis of democracy and thought they could simply use Trump to bully people into voting for them.
Imagine a system where a fascist Boogeyman is held up every election and people reliably vote against them without regard for who they vote for. The other party could put up whatever shitty candidate they wanted whether they espouse the views of the population or not.
Not only is that not at all a fucking democracy, it was the documented strategy of the Democratic party! Except it doesn't fucking work, which they should have learned in 2016.
Like genocide! Or 99% of the other candidates facist policies. Or ...
Except when the other party sees they lose 3/4 elections in a row by putting up fascist boogeymen, they will statistically *stop doing that*, since it’s a losing strategy. They can only keep doing that because Americans are showing them that they actually like it better than an actual human being.
If you don't vote, you are part of the problem.
Let's change the language a bit: voting is every citizens' *civic duty.*
Whether we have a favorite candidate or not, the duty is still to show up, just as it's a candidate's duty to present their campaign platform. Both sides have to show up in order for the plane to get off the ground.
In this case, the plane sits on the tarmac, a smoking ruin.
Yes, its random lemmy posters that made Harris have a shit campaign that didn't get out the vote. Vote for another centrist in the primary in 4 years whose main appeal is "I'm not Vance" and lets see how 2028 goes.
Not saying it's your "fault" but not voting means you're ok with the republicans being in power. That's all I'm saying.
Flags really checking out here.
You see... The Dems did that too... What was really needed wasn't "well you should vote", it should have been, "what would it take for you to vote"... And then fucking do it
Deleted by moderator
2020:
2024:
1% less this time around.
Democrats, despite preaching bipartisanship, do not want it. In fact, they benefit greatly from the trumpification of the republican party as they can gather their votes without making any significant concessions to the voter by denouncing how outrageous the republican party is.
https://www.npr.org/2022/06/27/1106859552/primary-illinois-colorado-republican-candidate-democrats-ads
That attitude isn't helpful either.
Bipartisanship *is* possible, but only by convincing everyone to come further left.
Because actual left leaning policy is popular.
That's the true lesson that Democrats refuse to learn. Mostly because they've been paid not to.
We need a cardinal voting system.
Dehumanizing them is counterproductive.
They ARE human beings, who need to both be deprogrammed and held accountable, proportionally to their actions. But they didn't just spontaneously erupt in hate and bigotry, people aren't born that way, they are socialised to be that away.
There is a collection of deeply effective systems at play here that control every aspect of our lives and those, and the people who run and directly profit from them, are to blame, not the individuals they manipulate, however hateful and harmful and misguided they become.
You're never going to solve a problem by attacking its by-products, but only by destroying it from the roots.
Like all political "analysis", this one is just another bit of meaningless preaching.
Seems more like a boastful "I was right" from those that ensured they were right.
Maybe you should call on the candidate to have less bad positions than try to call on voters to support them despite their bad positions. For some reason 'she's electable if you vote for her' seems to keep being a losing strategy.
Reminder - Americans didn't just vote "no" on Kamala Harris because she had bad positions. They also voted "yes" for a guy with 34 felony convictions and almost no positions except "immigrants are bad". He vastly fails the standard you're applying to Harris. I think the two most likely reasons the election came out the way it did are A) it was rigged by Republicans, or B) a vast swath of America is incredibly fucking stupid. Option B seems a lot more rational to me.
Democratic strategists keep refusing to learn the lesson that presidential elections are about driving turnout. Centrist swing voters are a red herring and the way to win is to enthuse the base. Her positions failed to enthuse the base and so they were bad. It's much easier for the right to enthuse the base because their base is morons who are going to project whatever they believe onto the candidate as long as they dog whistle enough.
Trump is horrible and wrong, but he had a solid message. I could tell you what he's about in 5 minutes without having to think about it.
What could you say about Harris besides "she isn't Trump"? She wants an opportunity economy? What is that? How would it work? Why was she even running?
Refusing to wat?? Driving voter turnout was probably the central theme of the whole Harris campaign. Maybe not in enough memes, I dunno.
Maybe if you get enough celebrities to endorse you, that'll drive turnout. Oh, and the Cheneys. Because everybody loves them.
Democrats shouldn't be trying to get Republicans to vote for them. We know who they are. They've told us over and over and over again. Forget them. Work on turning out your base, and the independents, and people who don't normally vote. Have a strong, populist message and a solid narrative.
MAGAs gonna MAGA, but lots of Republicans are fed up with Trump and voted for Harris this year (or at least said they were going to). I don't see how it was a mistake to try.
There was zero defection from the Republican vote from 2020
https://lemmy.world/comment/13311099
Deleted by author
Keir won because the UK, like the US, has First Pass The Post and the Even More Far Right Party - Reform - divided the votes on the Far Right hence the Tories came second in lots of electoral circles were they usually come first.
Also I've lived all over Europe including the UK and New Labour is plain Right, not Center-Right - they only seem center by comparison with the Tories who migrated to the Far-Right during the Leave Referendum and subsequent Johnson Government.
Similarly by comparison with most of Europe (not the UK) the US is a country with only a plain Right (maybe even hard) and a Far-Right.
Curiously, both New Labour and the Democrat Party support the ethno-Fascist regime in Israel, something which I feel neatly underlines my point as from what I see elsewhere in Europe (with the notable exception of Germany) no Leftwing party supports them.
Deleted by author
Nothing left about them, Keith made pretty damn sure of it. The fact that you (and sadly many others) think they are though, is simply a demonstration of how the Overton gets shifted to the right by the establishment protecting its own interests, since they are who parliament actually serve.
Pro tip: the community you post in doesn't change reality.
Or maybe the words do have reasonably fixed global meaning and only British Exceptionalism and their very propaganda-heavy environment makes Britons think their political landscape redefines those words.
Besides, even in Britain you might want to consider the existence of the Corbyn phenomenon (who, if I remember it correctly, got more votes than Starmer did) as well as the Greenparty (whose 1 million vote count went up to 1.4 million in the latest electing) as proof that there is in fact a Left even in England which is not just "What's in it for me?!" Neoliberals cosplaying as "lefties" by throwing some identity politics slogans and below inflation minimum wage raises once in a while, whilst *de facto* supporting an ethno-Fascist regime half way around the globe currently working on Holocaust v2.
I would say their support for the Neue Nazis and their pro-Finance politics (which I saw up close and personal having worked in that Industry before, during and after the 2008 Crash) by themselves are more than enough to place them firmly in the full-on Right field, possibly even Hard Right.
People whose guiding principle is "The greatest good for the greatest number" don't do what the New Labour types have done and continue to do, even the "pragmatic"/"moderate"/"center" ones.
Deleted by author
What would I know, my references are only politics in 4 different countries including being a political party member in two of them, one of which was the UK ...
Deleted by author
Centrism can win in places that aren't America. Too many Republicans are being fed propaganda all day long by Fox "News"...an organization that has argued in court that no one should take them seriously. But that's where they get their news. They're also indoctrinated by their religious upbringing from Evangelicals. There is no such thing as a moderate Republican anymore. They have shown that they will vote every time for the Republican candidate regardless of how flawed they are. Trump is a convicted felon that tried to overthrow the government, has been found in a court to be a rapist, was best friends with Jeffrey Epstein, has had numerous failed businesses and bankruptcies, has denigrated our troops. NONE OF IT MATTERS. Stop trying to appeal to the right and actually get your voting base excited about the policies you want to push.
Deleted by author
There is no center in the US. If you're okay voting for Donald Trump, you are not in the center. That's entirely the point.
The UK had racist riots for months. You guys are not a good example.
I'm sure them supporting and paying to kill women and children didn't help either, and that their online cult acted almost as fascist as the person they claimed they were trying to stop.
Yeah, like how Harris fans were talking about people poisoning the blood of the country and their plans about deporting millions of people, which would require concentration camps. And then there's the Democratic party's genocidal persecution of queer people.
Basically no difference at all.
I don't want to leave this country, but I'm so fucking glad I'll get away from these sort of stupid lies.
I'm not in your country, but already have Timewarp tagged as "Trump talking point maniac" for some time. Just so you know the lies are available abroad too.
I know they are, but less so. Or at least hopefully less so about America. I'll have to deal with all new lies in Britain.
Well Keir Starmer was one of the first to congratulate Trump on his victory before it was official, and talk about the "special relationship" between the two countries, so I wouldn't get your hopes up. Trump also owns a golf club is Scotland, so is sure to visit and the Tories are pushing for him to be allowed to address parliament when he does, which is nice.
When Keir Starmer starts planning the queer genocide Trump's people are planning, I'll give more of a shit. Right now, I am laser-focused on protecting my child. That is my only job right now.
To drop all the snark: I do worry about the UK, but for sure it would be a better place to be than the US right now.
They *were* talking about their plans to deport more people, build more immigrant holding facilities, and shutting the border down. When republicans started fear mongering about the "immigrant caravan", democrats hopped right on board.
Not even *close* to the same.
No one is saying they were good. That's the mistake so many people make about people who voted for Harris. Plenty of us didn't do it because we liked Harris. We did it because we hated Trump.
Over and over again, I said to people telling me not to vote for Harris, "which candidate should I vote for that has a legitimate chance of beating Donald Trump?" And I didn't get an answer.
Then, when Indiana finalized it's ballot, there were four names on it and write-ins were not allowed: Harris, Trump, Kennedy and Oliver. Again, I asked who I should vote for multiple times. No answer. The closest I got was a very confused person who told me I shouldn't vote for any of them as I did a process of elimination while simultaneously saying I shouldn't abstain.
Good lord you're prolific on here. Im pretty sure youve argued with me against progressive parties before and all of this is extreme revisionism. But its too far buried.
I'm not sure how that changes the fact that I asked and asked and I never got an answer for who I should vote for.
Even now, you're not saying who I should have voted for.
That is not how anyone wins elections.
I think you are completely lying. I was on here a lot promoting Stein, and getting extremely opposed by you and everyone else. Fuck off with this "i just wanted an answer" innocent BS
It doesn't matter what country you go as long as it is a two party corporatocracy and the "left" is parading around with war-mongering neocons, supporting genocide, censoring and astroturfing social media for people point it out, etc... then you'll get the same result.
Oh that's fine. It's a three party corporatocracy in England. Plus the corporatocracies in other parts of Britain.
But they know what fascism is and they know that what Harris' supporters wanted wasn't fascism. So I'm happy to be going there.
I'm a progressive that is against fascism and genocide, but the number of Democrats that censored me and called me a fascist has me convinced that many of them are perfectly content with fascism as long as it is their fascism.
What, exactly, is "their fascism?"
"Censoring" you on a non-government website has nothing to do with fascism.
Censoring people, especially when they're telling the truth, so you can control the narrative through gaslighting and lies is pretty fascist in my book.
Nobody is under the illusion that Trump is better for the situation in Gaza than Harris.
But, too many left-leaning voters feel they have to "take a stand" by staying home or voting third party. I have several friends who did exactly that, even though it's abundantly clear that staying home is effectively a vote for Trump.
Meanwhile, NOBODY on the conservative side is doing that shit. It's been true since the Reagan era, the conservatives put aside any personal distaste they have, and they get behind their candidate.
Almost like Kamala could have changed her stance on the situation and got those people out to vote for her. But sure, let's blame people not willing to hold their nose and vote for more genocide.
And by doing so the voted for more genocide. What a bunch of dumb cunts.
I agree. The Democrat party has become nothing more than a bunch of dumb corporate bureaucrats. Will they ever learn?
Aww dude. Good job completely missing the point. But hey if it helps you sleep at night.
Good job getting Trump elected.
Hmm yes let us instead enable the guy who wants to give Israel a blank check with no leash, very smart
That is the big problem here that people just don't want to admit.
Just look at the numbers. Harris will probably finish 15 million votes behind Biden 2020. Those are people who could have voted, but didn't.
Could it be the dogshit right wing Hillary-repeating campaign the Harris folks ran?
The same campaign leftists have been tearing apart and pointing out the objective failures of, predicting exactly this result?
No, it must be the nonexistent leftists who are wrong.
You people are hilarious lmao. You seriously think the average American even knows one shred of leftist theory?
I guess if you people knew why you lost, you wouldn’t have lost so I can’t blame you too much. The curse of a weak mind must be hard to bear.
"We've been actively trying to tear you down, it's not our fault."
Correct its the fault of the person advocating a genocide.
'dont commit a genocide, toss in some prolabor policies.'
'Stop tearing me down!'
Do you even fucking hear yourself. Lol
"Do you hear yourself" from you is rich.
That's a lot of words that mean fuck all.
But I guess you've got to score your nonexistent points somehow.
you need this
You can stop now. Putin isnt paying overtime.
If you didn't vote, or voted third party, because the Democrat candidate wasn't "Left enough" for you, then like it or not you *got* exactly what you *voted for.*
You have to vote like we have the system we have, not like we have the system you want.
Stein got 0.6 million votes. Over a hundred million stayed at home. I sincerely doubt that each of those hundred million is a dyed-in-the-wool anti-electoralist, so why focus on the "Not left enough" people? They had no effect on the election one way or another, just like they kept telling you. Your problem is that the majority of people in this country are completely alienated from politics. If you continue to focus on the left to the exclusion of the Democrats' very real shortcomings, if you continue to ignore DNC's failure to offer a winning platform to everyday people, then you are damning us all to an eternity of the current moment.
I hate the blame for third party voters, they still showed up and voted there are more things on the ballot than president and they almost certainly voted the progressive option for them which was good.
If literally every person who voted for a third party candidate, left or right, if literally all off them voted for Kamala Harris she still would have lost...
And how did the absolute number of them changed? The chart is meaningless without that - as far as we know the pleading worked, all the moderate Republicans left and are no longer registered Republicans. The percentage of Democrat votes among Republicans got smaller because they not only voted Democrat, they also changes their party registration.
I don't think it happened, I'm just saying these percentages alone aren't proving anything either way.
I agree, the chart is meaningless. Votes are anonymous, they don't have your name on them or anything. So the only way they can get this info is by people self reporting it, or something seriously fraudulent happening.
IMO, the chart amounts to "we asked registered Republicans to tell us who they voted for and 94% of respondents said they voted Republican" ..... And?
The information is without merit or value.
I see your point, and that's fair too. But what I'm saying is that even if the data was 100% reliable, the chart still can't be used without the absolute numbers shown.
I absolutely agree with that. Either the total number of respondents or the absolute number of voters on each side.
It's still self reported information which can very easily misrepresent what actually happened, but at least there would be some weight to the figures in any way, shape, or form.
Block, block, upvote, scroll, upvote, block, upvote, upvote, block
I dont get what's wrong. You guys wanted a genocider, now you get one. I thought that wasn't that big of a deal?